<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[The Beginning of Infinity]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Almost exactly a year ago, well, later October, it all started with an article about a possible <a href="https://thedorkweb.substack.com/p/towards-a-solarpunk-future" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">solarpunk future</a>.<br />
I posted the above link with,</p>
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<p dir="auto">I'm digging this!</p>
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<p dir="auto">To which Richard replied with the same link and this message,</p>
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<p dir="auto">Sorry, wrong button! Yes, this is very interesting and doable. And this present climate is a great opportunity to do it. If these ideas were carried through it would be unnecessary to rail against the institutions because they would be proved obsolete and ineffective and would die of their own accord.</p>
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<p dir="auto">After a week or so I finally came back to this idea about a "solarpunk future," having read a chapter in The Beginning of Infinity that covered what Deutsch summarized <a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/david_deutsch_chemical_scum_that_dream_of_distant_quasars/transcript" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">in this lecture</a> titled "Chemical scum that dreams of distant quasars,") and replied,</p>
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<p dir="auto">Late reply is usual, but definitely what I was thinking! Institutions sminstituitions is what I say.</p>
<p dir="auto">Also RE: that book I was going on about, still really into this David Deutsch philosophy: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/the-infinite-optimism-of-physicist-david-deutsch/ cc: @Fidel Montoya</p>
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<p dir="auto">Time passed. There was talk of <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">Yen Princes</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62tIvfP9A2w" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">Fear in Jazz</a>, and <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/odd-lots/id1056200096?i=1000495630261" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">CBDCs</a>. <br />
November 29th, 9:72PM:</p>
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<p dir="auto"><a href="https://youtu.be/vKO8YRwVVu8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc"><i class="fa fa-youtube" aria-hidden="true"></i> Youtube Video</a></p><div class="js-lazyYT lazyYT-container" data-youtube-id="vKO8YRwVVu8" data-width="640" data-height="360" data-parameters style="width:640px;padding-bottom:360px">
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<p dir="auto">Podcast released a few hours ago covering basically everything I was trying to say without getting hung up on the words “infinity” and “explanation,” though he uses those concepts frequently in the talk. Worth a listen!</p>
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<p dir="auto">Before this post there has been a game day where Daniel Dennett's <em>deepities, was brought up (if I remember correctly)</em>, and there was a name that we were at a loss for,</p>
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<p dir="auto">This guy Deepak Chopra was the guy whose name I was at a loss for. I understand your enthusiasm for philosophy and truth. I just hope you don't turn into Deepak...<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU6TkfCGlX8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU6TkfCGlX8</a></p>
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<p dir="auto">This put me on the defensive,</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">Deepak Chopra is a author and alternative-medicine advocate (aka. is a grifter and a charlatan).</p>
<p dir="auto">David Deutsch is a Professor of physics at the Centre for Quantum Computation, the Clarendon Laboratory, Oxford University and an Honorary Fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford. (copied from his website).</p>
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<p dir="auto">Fidel and I had our first written exchange about infinity and explanations.</p>
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<p dir="auto">Personally, I don't have a whole lot of interest in philosophy because it's utility seems subjective and all too often it's advocates attempt to hijack scientific discoveries, insert woo in the gaps of scientific knowledge or outright tresspass on the domain of science without consent of the consensus of scientists in a given field.</p>
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<p dir="auto">Myself,</p>
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<p dir="auto">He’s a physicist, but I definitely hear where you’re coming from regarding philosophy.</p>
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<p dir="auto">Fidel,</p>
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<p dir="auto">I guess, to me, I was kind of feeling like the discussion of "Infinite number of explanations" was going down Woo BLVD.</p>
<p dir="auto">TLOL. To be clear on my part, the time to give consideration to anything that is being put forth as "an explanation" of/for anything or any given question, is when the preponderance of evidence has given us no choice but to give it that consideration. Thus, I simply do not see how more than a handful can be recognized as explanations, much less an "infinite" number of them.</p>
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<p dir="auto">Time passed again, I posted about <a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_levin_the_electrical_blueprints_that_orchestrate_life?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">Electrical blueprints for Life</a>. And subsequently linked to the books that I just can't seem to help but proselytize. <a href="https://archive.org/details/TheFabricOfReality/page/n1/mode/2up" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">The Fabric of Reality</a>, and the <a href="https://ia800107.us.archive.org/29/items/RichardDawkinsTheSelfishGene_201802/The%20Beginning%20of%20Infinity.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">Beginning of Infinity</a>. Also a book about a novel way of studying the physics of quantum information that is less focused on particular particles and their trajectories: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0525521925/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_TB9MY120TEB1X9WQXTAD" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">Constructor Theory</a>.</p>
<p dir="auto">Time passed, board games were played, digitally and analogically. We had a conversation about <a href="https://www.wired.com/story/ai-write-code-ordinary-language/?bxid=5cc9e0eb2ddf9c1a7addc292&amp;cndid=51474183&amp;esrc=wired_prefs&amp;mbid=mbid%3DCRMWIR012019%0A%0A&amp;source=EDT_WIR_NEWSLETTER_0_DAILY_OPT_DOWN_ZZ&amp;utm_brand=wired&amp;utm_campaign=aud-dev&amp;utm_mailing=WIR_Weekly%202021-05-27&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=nl&amp;utm_term=tout-p" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">GPT-3, AI, and AGI</a> mentioning Deutsch's ideas again, set to <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1R-m93uek" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">this music Richard shared</a>.</p>
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<p dir="auto">Yup, I've seen what <a href="https://twitter.com/sharifshameem/status/1284095222939451393" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">GPT-3 already capable of doing</a>, but you still need to be able to audit code if you want to check if it's usable (eg. it created a React form submission button--but you still need to know what a buttons looks like, if it's targeting the write form, http request types and parameters, and what javascript actions are getting triggered).</p>
<p dir="auto">But yeah, there's a lot of talk about the mistakes in the phrase "99 percent perspiration" (or something like that) in the Beginning of Infinity. Here's a bit:</p>
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<p dir="auto"><img src="/forum/assets/uploads/files/kug7zfhqnhioc0zujl67gkyv2ddi.png.png" alt="image.png" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" /></p>
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<p dir="auto">If we make an AI capable of being creative (making discoveries), then it's the same as a person. Deutsch says it's possible, but it can only happen one of two ways (see: <a href="https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/two-guesses-about-creativity" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/two-guesses-about-creativity</a> <img src="https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f61e.png?v=9a669e668c5" class="not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji--disappointed" style="height:23px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle" title="):" alt="😞" /> either no automation can be creative and we need a new mode of computation (the goal of constructor theory), OR there is a kind of automation under the prevailing conception that produces emergent phenomena that constitute creativity (consciousness is an emergent phenomena).</p>
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<p dir="auto"><img src="/forum/assets/uploads/files/kug7zfhqnhioc0zujl67gkyv2ddi" alt="image.png" class=" img-fluid img-markdown" />Somehow, we have arrived back at the start of this month, October 2021. After our most recent board game session, in which there was another heated discussion about science and people's place in the universe, I posted yet ANOTHER link to a Deutsch TED talk titled, <a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/david_deutsch_after_billions_of_years_of_monotony_the_universe_is_waking_up?language=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">After billions of years of monotony, the universe is waking up</a>. At that begun our more lengthy discussions.</p>
]]></description><link>https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/topic/28/the-beginning-of-infinity</link><generator>RSS for Node</generator><lastBuildDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2026 17:17:31 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/topic/28.rss" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2021 10:25:35 GMT</pubDate><ttl>60</ttl><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to The Beginning of Infinity on Mon, 01 Nov 2021 06:56:04 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">One person keeping an eye out for red flags is a red flag to me ;)--So, let's all be on guard for red flags. Down with the CCP!</p>
<p dir="auto">But in the meantime, what I'm really looking forward to, is those <strong>brain eggs</strong> you alluded to.</p>
]]></description><link>https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/431</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/431</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[cozy]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2021 06:56:04 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to The Beginning of Infinity on Mon, 01 Nov 2021 06:26:34 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">As a lot of this has come back to roost on my brain, I also remember ironing out the red flags I had with Cody's position when we at Cody's house, just after wrapping up our gaming session. I'll keep an eye on this thread though, in case another one presents itself.</p>
]]></description><link>https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/430</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/430</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[snoopy]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2021 06:26:34 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to The Beginning of Infinity on Mon, 01 Nov 2021 02:26:29 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">the ' set to <a href="https://twitter.com/sharifshameem/status/1284095222939451393" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">this music Richard shared</a>.' link doesn't seem to go to music</p>
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<p dir="auto">Fixed! Here was the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1R-m93uek<br />
Also, fixed <a href="https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/two-guesses-about-creativity" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">the reference</a> for the comment, "a kind of automation under the prevailing conception that produces emergent phenomena that constitute creativity..." related to Dennis Hackethal. He's a controversial figure in the AGI community for <a href="https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/animal-sentience-faq" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">comments like these regarding the anthropomorphization of animals</a>. He's also <a href="https://blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/the-beginning-of-infinity-der-anfang-der-unend" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">a fan of Deutsch</a>.</p>
<p dir="auto">Before I posted <em>the really long post</em>, there's another response from Richard, I think we should add as well.</p>
]]></description><link>https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/429</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/429</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[cozy]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2021 02:26:29 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to The Beginning of Infinity on Sun, 31 Oct 2021 15:21:07 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">That's a helluva reading/watching list. I didn't have a chance to absorb it all at the time but I'll try to work my way through it in the coming weeks. I remember that first Deutsch talk. I liked his description of a typical place in the universe. <em>Rare Earth</em> is an excellent book about how atypical our place in the universe is. I actually found out about it from <a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_ward_a_theory_of_earth_s_mass_extinctions#t-189579" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">Peter Ward's TED talk</a>. Really interesting book!</p>
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<p dir="auto">...there is a kind of automation under the prevailing conception that produces emergent phenomena that constitute creativity (consciousness is an emergent phenomena).</p>
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<p dir="auto">I'm not clear on what this means but that's probably because I still have all that reading to do.</p>
<p dir="auto">[Here was my response to the Deutsch 'billions of years of monotony' talk that you posted Oct. 7th]</p>
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<p dir="auto">Deutch is a really smart guy but a very theoretical theoretical physicist. I mean I just hope it all ties into something practical. Humans may be capable of explanatory knowledge but we've got a lot of problems that aren't getting solved. One reason is that everyone has to follow the money. Smart people working for the wrong company or a company doing the wrong thing because, no matter what you make, somehow, we still need the money.</p>
<p dir="auto">By the way, I'm sorry I misrepresented myself the other night. I do know that we're choking the life out of the planet. I just don't think we WILL choke the life out of the planet. Life will figure out a way to survive with or without us and, if we're to survive, it will only be because survival became profitable.</p>
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<p dir="auto">...to which you wrote something in a google doc which I hope you'll repost here.</p>
]]></description><link>https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/425</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/425</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2021 15:21:07 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to The Beginning of Infinity on Sun, 31 Oct 2021 11:32:39 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">Great job Cody, sorting out the path of our discussions <img src="https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f642.png?v=9a669e668c5" class="not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji--slightly_smiling_face" style="height:23px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle" title=":)" alt="🙂" /> One minor quibble; the ' set to <a href="https://twitter.com/sharifshameem/status/1284095222939451393" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow ugc">this music Richard shared</a>.' link doesn't seem to go to music. I can't remember for the life of me what music I shared, though lol</p>
]]></description><link>https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/424</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://forum.theflyingdutchmen.games/post/424</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Skull]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2021 11:32:39 GMT</pubDate></item></channel></rss>